My many thoughts on fitting c.1780 stays
Dec. 13th, 2017 01:21 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mala_14I spent the last couple of days in mock-up land trying to get a really good fit for my stays. I wanted them to give a nice shape, but I also wanted them to be comfortable (I tested them by wearing the mock-up for a couple hours. I even vacuumed in them! ;p) Anyways, I spent a lot of time looking for advice on fitting stays, but there isn't a lot out there. Partly, probably, because fitting stays, including historically, is a very individualized process. The fabulous Kendra, of demodecouture.com, goes into the fitting process here, which includes some really interesting observations that were helpful to me. However, Kendra has quite a different figure from me, so we were dealing with some different fitting issues. So, here are all my thoughts for fitting a short, short-waisted figure, with a medium-to-small bust and a swayback for c.1780s stays. (Probably good for about 1775-1795. Stays before and after this period tend to be different styles and I didn't look into them that much for this project.) The actual stays will be fully boned, with reed, and have a pink linen outer layer. I was totally inspired by this pair of stays in the Manchester Gallery.
First off, for a refresher, here is the pattern that I started with. It is a slightly adjusted version of the stays from the Kyoto Costume Institute, the pattern being found in the Fashion book put out by them.
I shortened them about 0.75" because I'm short-waisted (back neck to waist length = 14.5). Originally, the pattern has about a 12.5" CF, but my final mock-up has a CF of 11.75". The back two pieces were shortened on a line perpendicular to the CB line. The front piece was shortened on a line perpendicular to the CF line. And the side front piece was shortened on a line parallel to the bottom/tabs. This made shortening them pretty easy since the only fudging that was needed was the small sliver of white that you can see on the front piece. I think the circumference dimensions were pretty close to the original (which I think was about 30" bust, 20" waist). I pattern ended up being about 32" bust, 24" waist, even though my intentions were to make it 31" bust, 22" waist, somehow I keep accidentally getting too large of a pattern for these stays, no idea why. (For reference, my actual measurements are about 33" bust, 27" waist.)
Mock-up #1 was this slightly modified pattern. I was trying out 2 different boning layouts on the front to see what I liked better in terms of direction. The actual thing will be fully boned, rather than this lightly boned business that I have going on for the mock-ups.
It was too big all around. I couldn't tighten it properly.
I ended up taking out a lot of width from the back piece at the bottom, so that instead of curving outward, it now curved inward to the bottom. Probably about 0.25" taken off the top to 1" taken off the bottom. I also took it in about 0.25" at the top of the CF. (The random piece of boning sticking up is ridiculous, but I didn't have any other boning to put in that channel. ;p)
This created a much better fit in the waist. But I felt like it smushed my bust down. I was aiming for the sort of flared front/prow fronted look of the 1780s. You can see that the lacing strips are overlapping a bit at the top, indicating that it is still too big around the bust. Where the stitching line is for the boning on the lacing strips is actually where the CB is on the stays pieces.
I ended up letting out more at the CF at the top so that the CF seam is actually curved out at the top. I took it in under the arm about 3/8" where the front piece meets the side front piece from the top, moving down to nothing closer to the waist. I also took a very small tuck, maybe 0.25", angling from the top of the side front piece down to just above the waist. I think this gave me a much better fit. It certainly felt much better. I could feel a significant difference and it was more comfortable.
You can see that it is still a bit too big at the bust because the lacing strips are just touching at the top. I think that I'll take it in just a touch at the CF, but keeping the curve of the CF seam and take it in a bit more at the top on the side front piece. At the moment, this mock-up measures 30" bust and 23" waist.
So, some thoughts on fitting this type of stays. I have a swayback. My side back and back pieces both curve a lot near the waist. I think that this helps with fit. The original pattern has this, but I thought about it more when looking atlukitari 's stays pattern here. When that part of the stays has straighter lines, I get back lower back pain from the stays digging into my hips/butt/back. Even these stays gave me a bit of trouble with that, but it's because I had metal boning there, which is just too stiff.
For getting a nicely shaped bust, I highly recommend a few things. Curve the CF seam so that it goes out at the top. This is a solution that Kendra liked for a larger bust, but I also think it gives a bit more shaping for a smaller bust. The curved seam pushes under the bust to create more lift, so you get a bit more cleavage without flattening the whole front. Also make sure that the sides of the bust are well supported. This will push the bust a bit more to the front, also giving the look of more. On my mock-ups I didn't have any boning channels in the right place to do this, but I did experiment with moving around some of the boning (because my mock-up was 2 layers) so that it was to the side of the bust and it helped. I assume that interior horizontal boning and straps will also help with this. Lastly, make sure that the front piece is wide enough across the front of the bust. The little tab thingies (where the straps go) should be right where your arms meet your torso. It creates that wide front look that you see in portraits from the era. I think that smaller busted ladies like myself have a tendency to remove excess bust room in the front of the stays, but what you actually want to create is a wide front and a small back, so that your shoulders are thrown back with good posture.
People's blogs who were super helpful for looking at fit include:
Sanna's blog Rococo Atelier (Sanna made stays from this pattern back in 2013. Her figure is much curvier than mine, but it was so helpful to see this pattern properly fitted on someone.)
Kendra's blog Demode Couture (Kendra's finished stays here as well as a link to her Pinterest board showing stays that are flared at the front.)
lukitari 's blog Before the Automobile (Merja's beautifully constructed and fitted stays helped me think through fit.)
koshka_the_cat 's blog Before the Automobile (Katherine's stays were helpful in showing fit on someone smaller-busted, like myself.)
jenthompson 's blog Festive Attyre (Jen also has a set of stays from this era and it was helpful seeing another pair on an actual body, rather than a dressform.
First off, for a refresher, here is the pattern that I started with. It is a slightly adjusted version of the stays from the Kyoto Costume Institute, the pattern being found in the Fashion book put out by them.
I shortened them about 0.75" because I'm short-waisted (back neck to waist length = 14.5). Originally, the pattern has about a 12.5" CF, but my final mock-up has a CF of 11.75". The back two pieces were shortened on a line perpendicular to the CB line. The front piece was shortened on a line perpendicular to the CF line. And the side front piece was shortened on a line parallel to the bottom/tabs. This made shortening them pretty easy since the only fudging that was needed was the small sliver of white that you can see on the front piece. I think the circumference dimensions were pretty close to the original (which I think was about 30" bust, 20" waist). I pattern ended up being about 32" bust, 24" waist, even though my intentions were to make it 31" bust, 22" waist, somehow I keep accidentally getting too large of a pattern for these stays, no idea why. (For reference, my actual measurements are about 33" bust, 27" waist.)
Mock-up #1 was this slightly modified pattern. I was trying out 2 different boning layouts on the front to see what I liked better in terms of direction. The actual thing will be fully boned, rather than this lightly boned business that I have going on for the mock-ups.
It was too big all around. I couldn't tighten it properly.
I ended up taking out a lot of width from the back piece at the bottom, so that instead of curving outward, it now curved inward to the bottom. Probably about 0.25" taken off the top to 1" taken off the bottom. I also took it in about 0.25" at the top of the CF. (The random piece of boning sticking up is ridiculous, but I didn't have any other boning to put in that channel. ;p)
This created a much better fit in the waist. But I felt like it smushed my bust down. I was aiming for the sort of flared front/prow fronted look of the 1780s. You can see that the lacing strips are overlapping a bit at the top, indicating that it is still too big around the bust. Where the stitching line is for the boning on the lacing strips is actually where the CB is on the stays pieces.
I ended up letting out more at the CF at the top so that the CF seam is actually curved out at the top. I took it in under the arm about 3/8" where the front piece meets the side front piece from the top, moving down to nothing closer to the waist. I also took a very small tuck, maybe 0.25", angling from the top of the side front piece down to just above the waist. I think this gave me a much better fit. It certainly felt much better. I could feel a significant difference and it was more comfortable.
You can see that it is still a bit too big at the bust because the lacing strips are just touching at the top. I think that I'll take it in just a touch at the CF, but keeping the curve of the CF seam and take it in a bit more at the top on the side front piece. At the moment, this mock-up measures 30" bust and 23" waist.
So, some thoughts on fitting this type of stays. I have a swayback. My side back and back pieces both curve a lot near the waist. I think that this helps with fit. The original pattern has this, but I thought about it more when looking at
lukitari 's stays pattern here. When that part of the stays has straighter lines, I get back lower back pain from the stays digging into my hips/butt/back. Even these stays gave me a bit of trouble with that, but it's because I had metal boning there, which is just too stiff. For getting a nicely shaped bust, I highly recommend a few things. Curve the CF seam so that it goes out at the top. This is a solution that Kendra liked for a larger bust, but I also think it gives a bit more shaping for a smaller bust. The curved seam pushes under the bust to create more lift, so you get a bit more cleavage without flattening the whole front. Also make sure that the sides of the bust are well supported. This will push the bust a bit more to the front, also giving the look of more. On my mock-ups I didn't have any boning channels in the right place to do this, but I did experiment with moving around some of the boning (because my mock-up was 2 layers) so that it was to the side of the bust and it helped. I assume that interior horizontal boning and straps will also help with this. Lastly, make sure that the front piece is wide enough across the front of the bust. The little tab thingies (where the straps go) should be right where your arms meet your torso. It creates that wide front look that you see in portraits from the era. I think that smaller busted ladies like myself have a tendency to remove excess bust room in the front of the stays, but what you actually want to create is a wide front and a small back, so that your shoulders are thrown back with good posture.
People's blogs who were super helpful for looking at fit include:
Sanna's blog Rococo Atelier (Sanna made stays from this pattern back in 2013. Her figure is much curvier than mine, but it was so helpful to see this pattern properly fitted on someone.)
Kendra's blog Demode Couture (Kendra's finished stays here as well as a link to her Pinterest board showing stays that are flared at the front.)
lukitari 's blog Before the Automobile (Merja's beautifully constructed and fitted stays helped me think through fit.)koshka_the_cat 's blog Before the Automobile (Katherine's stays were helpful in showing fit on someone smaller-busted, like myself.)jenthompson 's blog Festive Attyre (Jen also has a set of stays from this era and it was helpful seeing another pair on an actual body, rather than a dressform.
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Date: 2017-12-14 01:45 pm (UTC)In my head I am thinking of these as the brunch stays.
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Date: 2017-12-14 11:57 pm (UTC)They are totally the brunch stays! I should have a mimosa when I finish them. :)
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